Rachel Loeb, Formerly of NYCEDC | Bronx Point in Bronx| When Governments Build Housing
Transcript
Announcer 00:02
Welcome to American Building, a weekly recorded show whose mission is to share an alternative perspective of what we build in America, and why. Together we discover how the work of the real estate industry connects to every American. In season two, we focused on how buildings changed as a result of the pandemic. In this season, we're revisiting conversations from previous seasons, to see where Americans put their heads down at night. Together, we will discover the many definitions of home across the New York City metropolitan area, which includes over 23 million Americans. Each week, we'll visit a new building and explore complex and confusing issues related to housing access to see what they can teach us about ourselves, and our country will meet those who work to develop in thoughtful and impactful ways, who build neighborhoods to be more sustainable, affordable, accessible, or inclusive, who labor to create thriving communities, and transform the lives of generations to come. Through their stories, we will humanize often polarizing topics. Profound, surprising, and hilarious. This show is for developers and builders with boots on the ground for innovators trying to find ways to improve our industry, for the policymakers and public employees. And for any person who has walked by a building and wondered why. And now your host award winning architect turned developer and startup founder Atif Qadir, AIA.
Atif Qadir 01:53
This is American Building. And I'm your host, Atif Qadir. I'm the founder of Commonplace. Join me as it take a drive by the skylines and strip malls, crosswalks, and rail crossings, balconies, buildings and boroughs to discover a new generation of housing. Let's build common ground.
Atif Qadir 02:26
In this episode, you will learn about the history of government sponsored housing in New York City, who lives in this housing and who pays for it? You will also join me in learning about a major government sponsored housing project in the Bronx. So across the country, there are 1.2 million units of public housing that are operated by over 3300 Local Public Housing Agencies. How did governments get involved with housing? Public Housing is the oldest and one of the largest subsidy programs in the country. Before World War Two, the US was facing a housing shortage and a federal public housing program was started as part of the New Deal. That was done through the Housing Act of 1937. Public housing production increased in the post war period and the decades after, with the goal of serving the growing middle class. In 1974, President Richard Nixon placed a moratorium on housing spending, there has been no significant expansion of public housing spending sense.
Atif Qadir 03:39
Now, how does race play into this? From its start, public housing was segregated by race by mandate, with whites often having exclusive access to new developments, proportionally more units and receiving better amenities. This was a practice that existed through the 1970s and was echoed by race based redlining of neighborhoods, race based deed, covenants, and race based underwriting guidelines used and pushed by the Federal Housing Administration, the homeowners loan association and the Veterans Administration. The DEA industrialization of cities, federally subsidized suburban growth and even anti communist propaganda contributed to rapid changes to the demographics of cities and public housing in particular, the Fair Housing Act of 1968 was passed. So public housing would no longer be a tool for advancing segregation. In practice municipal activities, from urban renewal to even the way budgets were developed and deployed, perpetuated unfair housing practices, even when it was illegal.
Atif Qadir 04:50
Think about where garbage is picked up by sanitation workers and where it isn't. This is a death by 1000 cuts when public housing began In New York City in the 1930s, its residents were almost 100% White and lower middle class. Currently they are 90% Black or Hispanic and working class or poor. In contrast, the city's population is currently 52%, black or Hispanic. I want to be careful to note that this statistic in itself in isolation is not the issue, but rather it is a symptom of the long historical practices related to public housing that I've highlighted so far. Terry Gross of NPR, who I would love to meet one day since I'm a fanboy wrote about the history of segregation in a segment for fresh air called a forgotten history of how the US government segregated America. The link to the episode is in the show notes. In New York City, the municipal government is involved in housing through a collection of agencies.
Atif Qadir 05:54
The New York City Department of Housing Preservation and Development, and the New York City Department of Housing Development Corporation are responsible for deploying capital for the construction and redevelopment of public housing. The New York City Economic Development Authority develops housing under the auspices of economic development. The New York City Housing Authority owns and manages the 335 developments, totaling 178,000 Public Housing apartments located in the city. Their budgets are from the city, state and federal government, which is funded through taxation. In this episode of American building, I am sharing an edited version of the conversation I had in August 2021 with Rachel lobe, Rachel was formerly the president and CEO of the New York City Economic Development Authority, an organization she was a part of from 2018 to 2022. Prior to her work there, she was the Director of Development at the worldwide group, and a senior director at Avalon Bay communities. She is a graduate of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology like me, and Northwestern University. Enjoy the conversation.
Atif Qadir 07:11
Thank you so much for being with us, Rachel,
Rachel Loeb 07:14
thank you so much for having me.
Atif Qadir 07:15
So the project that we'll be talking about today is the Bronx point project. And it's located in the lower concourse, an area that has a neighborhood assets like the Lincoln Hospital, Hostos College and the Bronx Terminal Market. And it's also a neighborhood that went underwent a really successful rezoning in 2009 to allow for more commercial development, more economic activity, particularly along the waterfront. So could you talk about the needs that the New York City EDC saw in this next wave of projects that are happening there. And now the larger context of the Bronx point project works.
Rachel Loeb 07:49
So I think that if you were to look around cities around the United States, not just New York City, there has been over the last 20 years maybe a little more like a re turning back to our waterfront right there. And revisiting what a waterfront can and should be for the community and engaging in them. We sort of industrialized them, turned our back away from them, polluted them, and now coming back. And so in different parts of the city, how do we think about our waterfronts? How do we make sure that they become an amenity and accessible to people? And how do we fix the wrongs of the past. So this project represents a sort of an epitome of all of those values, where you can make a transformative mixed use development right along the Harlem River in a site that sat vacant for years. So we've been working on this intensely since early 16. And after the rezoning, de Blasio administration, then committed as almost $200 million of infrastructure because it's one thing to rezone, but if you don't put the money in there to actually upgrade the infrastructure, then you end up with people can't flush their toilets and things getting clogged.
Rachel Loeb 09:05
So you've got to kind of invest in the infrastructure along with the development. But what we tried to also do here was work with the community and listen and talk with and not to people who've lived here in this place for so long to really understand their hopes and dreams for the site. We have, we're not always perfect. But we try really hard and especially the last 10 years to really make community engagement, an essential core part of our process, before any project is designed not after, but before. So there was a two year community process that EDC led before the RFP was released before design was started and with interactive workshops and community workshops, and so it really created the framework so that you when you go out to the community down to the development partners, they understand the expectations and the communities already bought in. And so we also set parameters around who can participate. So for example, we have MWBE, high participation rates, women led development firm, as part of the development team, local hiring requirements, Affordable Housing, and waterfront access. So we were really proud of how this one came out.
Atif Qadir 10:39
So the this particular project, the Bronx point project is a new new building a new set of buildings, in the context of a larger development has started before for our listeners, Could you walk us through the stats for the project, like the number of units and a square footage?
Rachel Loeb 10:54
Sure. So it's not small, it's very big, it's about a half, just over half a million square feet up sorry, 500. Yeah, just about a half a million square feet of development. That includes affordable housing, open space, retail and cultural components. So in general, in total, there'll be 1000 units of housing. 554 units are the first phase with a variety of studios and one bedrooms, twos and threes. So it's also about affordable housing for families, not just single so is making sure that we had a diversity of income levels, as well as the diversity of housing stock, because these are permanently for affordable homes. And there's also set aside for formerly homeless families as well, or individuals. There's, you know, outdoors, a lot of outdoor spaces and laundry, and children's play rooms, and all the kinds of typical things you would find in an apartment building, as well as energy efficient components. But what's really exciting too, is the complete restoration of the waterfront. So landscapes features, school nods, as well as space for the Billion Oyster Project, which is an incredible organization and runs outdoor science programming.
Rachel Loeb 12:10
There's a 10,000 square feet of retail, we have a daycare on site, as well as the most exciting component to some, which is the universal Hip Hop Museum. The hip hop was born in the Bronx in 19, set summer of 1973. And so they are going to have their home there, which is also going to be a Mecca, and a destination for hip hop art lovers from around the world. Like they, as they said at the groundbreaking they don't need to go to Cleveland anymore to get inducted to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Yokote. You'll go there to get inducted to the hip hop Hall of Fame.
Atif Qadir 12:48
That was borough president Ruben Diaz. That's right. Yeah.
Rachel Loeb 12:51
And then also it just has like, good old fashioned excellent real estate, it's got great access to subways, it's got great access to Children's Museum and community colleges, and that that whole community, so really, it's well located, as well, and just across the river from Manhattan to
Atif Qadir 13:12
and you mentioned that this large and really kind of beautiful scope, and large amounts of community engagement that predated it. So I'm guessing that a large component of the success of this was the developers that were chosen as part of that RFP process that started in 2016. Could you tell us who was that the New York City EDC selected and how that process played out?
Rachel Loeb 13:36
So the site has been co developed by lnM development partners and type a project type A is a certified woman owned business enterprise. And lnM development partners is a long standing well experienced affordable mixed income and market rate housing developer who has a long track record of building throughout the city and the region. So together, it was a very strong partnership, that could meet the ability that we knew they could develop, deliver, and they met other policy objectives as well as for us as well in terms of diversifying who the development team is.
Atif Qadir 14:18
And then the budget they were working with. So there's obviously a really large project and the first phase was a $350 million. Could you talk about the breakdown of what those large buckets were used for and where the sources of funding were coming from?
Rachel Loeb 14:32
Sure. So there's a typical capital stack of both private capital as well as funding from allocation from the housing preservation of HPD. And bonds issued through HDC and Empire State. The state's economic arm also contributed some funding. You've got private investors and then as well city capital, so there's a very long for CAP So, because entities
Atif Qadir 15:02
and for our listeners HPD and HDC are city agencies that promote affordable housing. And then about the design and construction process were where were there opportunities for innovation or perhaps for trying new things in this process.
Rachel Loeb 15:17
Anytime you work, you work in the anytime you work along the waterfront, and you get an opportunity to engage in those spaces differently. So creating ways to connect the development back into the streetscape, you've got these instead of using kind of urban design speak for a moment where you've got these hard edges, and these barriers of actually creating these connection points so that they're also not isolated and the developments not isolated. And that the community waterfront benefits that are being built or not are also not just for this development is for the benefit of the overall, through around everywhere. So making sure that those connections are well thought out and can be implemented, it's important, as well, as you know, when you're using public dollars, you want to try to make the project as cost effective as possible, as well as need the latest code. So all of those are being balanced that you know, well designed. I mean, the landscape is going to be gorgeous. I've seen the renderings for this, but now they're just spectacular. And I've really set sensitively designed building as well.
Atif Qadir 16:26
I mean, one thing in particular that was innovative and the scope of the work was food hall and a food incubator in order to promote job creation and vocational training in the Bronx Point area. Could you talk about how a an ailment like that was included and what you hope that will accomplish?
Rachel Loeb 16:45
So these are the types of things that when you talk with the community, you learn and listen, and you get ideas and meet needs, and that image may not be visible to the naked eye. And so this is kind of a perfect example of a win win for what we tried to do because it gives small, small food vendors an opportunity to get their foot in the door without having to think of the high cost of infrastructure development around kitchens. And but then when you pair them with someone like that, who has the experience of DeKalb market, who were this, the operators come from, they have access to visibility and can promote them. And we've seen the sad thing that we're about the Bronx that people don't appreciate, is well, they are you know, we've got the Hunts Point food market, you've got some of those like the riverfront, they call it sometimes the Bronx, it's like the refrigerator for New York City because of all the wholesale markets, and yet the access to healthy food is limited. And so wherever we can engage with the Bronx Community to find opportunities to help bring local and fresh food is a win.
Atif Qadir 17:59
So you were appointed as the CEO of the New York City EDC, I'm just this May, my Mayor de Blasio, talk about the process of how you got that job.
Rachel Loeb 18:10
So as you mentioned, I was the CFO. So I had already I was here, and I knew that our previous president CEO, who had been with the administration for seven years, was departing after an incredible service to the city of New York. And I saw this as an opportunity and EDC is under the purview it reports to Deputy Mayor of Housing and Economic Development that keeping and I sort of gave myself the same advice that I often give to other people, which is, do you want something don't think people are mind reader's? And if you think you can do the job, raise your hand and lean in because people don't know. So I called her up. And I said, to quote like, I don't know if you know that I know that James is leaving, but I know. And I want you to know that I know. And I want you to know that I'm interested if you're interested in talking to me, kind of like one of those, just to make sure you know, and she said, well think I didn't know. And so and that's how the conversation started. But it is an appointed position, and you have to interview with the mayor.
Atif Qadir 19:25
I think that's really cool that you took the initiative to say that as opposed to wait for someone to ask you. And I would imagine that there's a lot of people out there that may be shy to let that be known or to promote themselves in that way. But I think that's something that can be compared a lot of fruit as this example shows. Yeah. So then you're the tenant president. The New York City EDC and right now this city is more than 50% Female more than 30% people of color, but you're the only second woman the only the second woman to apply at this agency, why do you think that this disappointment is an important one, both for the New York City EDC, as well as for the city overall,
Rachel Loeb 20:08
I believe that the value of diversity and that we are, and I think the research bears it, that decision. Companies organizations make better decisions, when their diversity of decisions, and, and diversity of voices and diversity of opinions. And so when you have a diversity of leadership types, you're going to evolve and change. And, and think about challenges differently. And so, at the same time, when you have representation, it's sort of cliche, but I think it's really true, right about when you see somebody in that seat, you then imagine that you can be in that seat. And so I have to say, like, since I've been here, in terms of the people that have, I've appointed into leadership positions, or the positions, I've got to, I have had people come up and say to me, Wow, it really, there's never been a so and so in that position before that's like, meant so much that you promoted the first person to sort of like, as a woman running construction, or all these sorts of things. And so when I, I've had people say like how much it means to them to see a woman in leadership. And that you can do, you can lead with conviction, and with strength and with kindness, and you know, and be a vulnerable leader, and do all do and be all of that. And so I think representation matters. And it matters to people, and it matters to people coming up.
Atif Qadir 21:50
And I think I can kind of add to that, even from a small perspective. A couple of years ago, when I was working in Excel development, I was a judge for the real estate competition at Harvard real estate weekend. And afterwards, one of the participants in the case competition came up and said, Can I give you a hug? This was before before the pandemic, obviously, can I give you a hug? And I'm like, Sure, okay. He said, Just seeing you there and saying what you were saying versus all the other people that were there, it made me feel that someone that looks like us can actually be in a position where what we say actually matters. So I think that was the first clue that I realized that it may not just be this idea of this checking the boxes intuition, I had it, I knew it was much more. So my first piece of evidence of that. And I like what you've said so far about the particular aspects that have made the Bronx project successful, because at the mm thing, the reflective of your leadership style, which is about being collaborative, about being a good listener, about understanding what people say and what they don't say, and to be vulnerable to know that it may not be that your answers are always the ones that will always be the best answers and the ones that end up going. Would you say that there are other areas of your leadership that you're particularly proud of where that perhaps you're looking to improve as well?
Rachel Loeb 23:08
Yeah, I mean, I think that, for better or worse, I tend to bring my whole self to the office, like, I tell me, I can't go that day, because I'm picking up my kids from work from school, or whatever it might be. Because I want people to understand that we're all parents, we all are juggling a lot. We've all had the same challenges for this last year and a half. My experience isn't the same as your experience, but we all have our experiences, and they're equally valid. Your truth is your truth, my truth is my truth. But we need to also at the same time, find some commonality. And so I think that I try to empower the people that work for me to make decisions. And yet, it was great. Like one of the first things I remember early on someone saying, like, we really appreciate that you're asking us our opinion, what do you think, but can you just tell us what do you think, you know, so we had to come up? Sometimes we want you to make the decision. So also having that that honest conversation, which is like, okay, when do you want me to guide you through it? And when are you asking me to just make the decision, and I've done that too. Like I remember I used to say to James like, so what can we do? Right, like? So being able to have that frankness with people so that they can they can also say they can feel comfortable enough to be like, could you just make the decision on this? Or can we make it together? So that you understand that people are really clear about they feel empowered, but they also feel safe enough to be like, I don't know what we should do. What do you think we should do?
Atif Qadir 24:39
So sometimes it sounds like leadership is also about taking a step back as well, too. And that you mentioned James, as the former administrator of the New York City, EDC and there's certain projects that you took over, took over from the previous administration and that you're charged with completing one thing that you mentioned that as a key part is about fulfilling promises in a process that goes from one administration to the next. Could you talk about how, why that is so important to you? And why you think that's important? The long term trajectory of the New York City is?
Rachel Loeb 25:13
Well, let's go back to Bronx plain as an example, right? I mean, we are working, trying to work in a community that actually feels that people don't keep their promises. So it's important for us, because we don't work. We say projects, but we really work with people. And we work with communities. And I think that it's very important for us if we want to continue to be able to work in these communities that we do what we say what we're going to do. Now is everything going to be perfect? No, like things happen. These are long term projects. But like, if you're going to take the time to ask people what they think, and then incorporated, you got to follow through, because that's how you build trust. And so that's why it matters, because I'm just here for a little bit of time. But EDC is going to be here for a long time. And we want there's a we have a we want to do a lot of good work, we think but people won't listen and don't want to engage if they think you're just gonna, like come and take and not give one thing that I was on a conversation with some real estate attorneys, and they were talking about sort of nimbyism, and, and anti development and the like, how do you think we can change the tone, I was like, Do what you're saying you're gonna do, and stop talking about square feet and units, talk about people, the community, the neighborhood, and then actually follow through and do it because their memories are longer than yours. And that might be the first step.
Atif Qadir 26:42
That's I think it's so refreshing to hear that, because that's not something that I think externally, people imagine of our industry or I think internally, even the conversations that we have, as developers or people in enroll in development roles, I have the hypothesis that it ends up being the most successful projects. And the ones that have the longest track record of success are the ones where they're actually more collaborative processes where listening actually happened and where there were defined goals. And those were measured and tracked over the course of the project. And it's like a small city planning commissioner in Hoboken, and our projects are much smaller than once in New York City. There's a similar line of thought that it's the ones that are thought of and where there's promises made that ended up and people are measuring the success and by that, that those ends up being the most successful projects that we have as well. So one thing in particular, you mentioned earlier is this school of driving innovation within the entire of New York City's economy. So particularly our industry tends to be one where we often do things the same as the way the Egyptians and the Romans have been doing yet. We're also the largest employer in the country, the largest contributor to GDP. Are there ways that you want to use your office and your strength of your role in order to drive innovation within our own industry?
Rachel Loeb 28:03
Yeah, we're doing that when we're trying to also do innovation through an equity lens. So one example is the in Prop tech, for example, we have and how can government help. So prop tech, right you need, you've got good ideas, but you need to test them, you need to, you need to beta them, and you need to, you need places to try them out. And so what we had seen before was that a lot of that had been like the Avalon Bay's additional spires like Oh, come and try out your fancy door latch system or helping you interface with apartment communication and very much targeted towards the luxury market. But if you look at where a lot of the real estate is held, you know, the IE not only EDC, but the city of New York has a lot of real estate. So if we can put our real estate into play as a place for people to innovate on and innovate through, we might be able to attract different parts of the market. And so with in collaboration with Deputy Mayor been and NYCHA and diecast, and etc. We released a prop tech RFP to say here, come use our assets, and help us help innovate solutions that are going to reduce costs. But and find solutions, whether it be particularly around making buildings more energy efficient and healthier. And if you think about it, like the opportunities around nature are amazing, right? They've got half a million unit, I mean, 500,000 units of housing that's like better than most cities, and similar prototypes. So you've got repetition. You've got innovation there. So if you can find some solutions, think how many times you can scale that. So
Atif Qadir 29:53
So you said 500,000 units of housing, right? Wow. I'm pretty sure that the largest affordable housing Oh Right are in the country, right?
Rachel Loeb 30:01
Yeah, yeah, it's 450 or 500. So like that, yeah, that's just that we have, and then take the office buildings, take the schools, etc. So, so we want to make sure that, that Prop tech, and as I talked about tech has, is also can be used to harness like certain asset types that are really used. And also, you know, an offshore wind is another opportunity, right for innovation. And here, again, we are using our own assets to try to bring that along. And also make sure again, that there's this, that phrase they use in the communities address, just transition. So that is your traditional way from a carbon economy to a renewable one, that you've made sure that everybody can participate in that. So we are also looking at creating accelerators around that. So those are just two examples of places where we've we see opportunities to push an innovation,
Atif Qadir 30:54
or so many of our listeners in our audience are in the beginning of their careers in architecture school or grad school, what would advice would you have for people that plan to work in the public sector in the private sector, but want to have a positive impact on their communities, or those that hope to work in the public sector, but to be able to have, like impact? Like they would see very quickly if they were to work at say, like a development company? So what kind of advice would you have for those two types of people?
Rachel Loeb 31:25
Well, I don't see like, having an impact on your community and working in real estate to some companies mutually exclusive, because you can always, I mean, that's exactly what you're doing. And so, if they're interested in the public sector, there's ways to sort of think about the way you develop the way you work with community. I mean, just because you work in DC doesn't mean you have to, that's the only place we can care about the community. And if you're not in the private sector, you can't. So you can start living those practices. I think there are different ways to get involved, like you can start right away. I mean, the great thing about working in the public sector is you see the volume of work, and the responsibility that you have, at a very young age is quite remarkable. So you're on your side, and then you're negotiating with the biggest companies on the other side, with very complicated transaction documents, financing structures, might be ground leases, complicated taxes, and bond financing, you name it, so it doesn't get much more complicated. So at any stage of your career, it's great for just learning and then also in real estate, you don't get that much management experience. So there's an opportunity for that too.
Atif Qadir 32:43
And if listeners want to learn more about the New York City EDC, what's the best way for them to do that?
Rachel Loeb 32:49
So we have, we are hiring excellent. We have positions open at various stages of people's careers. So you can visit our career page at EDC dot NYC backslash careers. So we have that we have paid internships, the summers halfway finished but but we are always looking for people to apply and we are looking for people in our real estate we have an incredible asset management division. I mean, we manage 66 million square feet on behalf of the city in New York of all diverse all types, from cruise terminals to industrial assets to ground leases under 42nd Street to the airport's you name it, we got it, hotels. And so you know really there's if there's anything construction, capital planning, planning around land division real estate, so we got an excellent
Atif Qadir 33:45
thanks for joining me today on American building. If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more, subscribe on your favorite listening app. And don't forget to rate and review and friends. I've teamed up with writers for the New York Times and Wall magazine to launch a digital media platform. To tell the fascinating stories of the impact developers and capital providers. I work with a commonplace. Check it out@commonplace.us